In conclusion, after our first discussion our class knows nothing about infinity and its attributes and knows little about the finite.
Sunday, September 4, 2011
Infinity- What is it?
After a brief introduction of our classmates the big question was asked, "What is infinity?" An hour into our discussion we could still not figure this out. To explore this thought we took apart some thoughts that were used to try and describe infinity. Can infinity be counted? We analyzed this thought by relating infinity to something that's countable yet not knowable. Nobody knows how much grass there is on earth, but we do know that there is a finite number of it. Nobody knows how many humans there on earth, but for a half second there is a definite number around the globe. From this the class agreed that finite number of things could be "infinite" because although the finite number exists, it is not knowable. One classmate described infinity as the category that things are tossed into when they can never be knowable. Through this thought we explored the big bang theory. There is a finite amount of matter but how much of it is unknown. Therefore, infinity could maybe be measured. How do we measure it? This is still unknown because there's the counter argument that maybe it is not measurable. Like a circle, we can accept that it keeps going but we cant understand its infinite rotation. Because the human mind is meant to accept a beginning and an end through our own reality, it's hard to accept something as being infinite. And so we try to find it's end, or infer that a never ending process of change keeps something from going out of existence. Is change an attribute of infinity? Cause and effect is something all humans can relate to and accept. But to think that something had no cause and has always been caused further confusion in our class. How can you measure something if you don't know where it begins? If this is not explainable does it just get tossed into the category of infinity? Or maybe, the beginning is knowable and before we keep moving forward we need to go back and answer the start. As I write this I notice how many circles our class discussion went in. We started with not knowing, moved to analyzing why it is or isn't knowable, and ended with not knowing the answer to that as well. Have no fear classmates, we are not alone. No one has figured this out yet.
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Hi Jessica,
ReplyDeleteWhen I started reading the script, I thought it was the professor who had posted something before I realized it was a student. This is a good summary.
I'm still battling with what infinity is all about. I went to Google to search for some other ideas, just to figure it out but most of them were religious ideas. You pointed out something at the beginning which never occurs to me that, "nobody knows how much grass we have on earth". This is similar to human population, the sea etc that we discussed but grass cannot be measured and to me it cannot be counted.
Grass is a typical example of infinity. It start growing till whatever length it reaches and I feel that mostly you have to give it a boundary before it ends but in reality it can grow further away. That was a good example you stated. The Circle example for instance, we ended by saying it’s finite because it can be measured from one point to the other, but thinking about drawing a circle in different direction without tracing the exact route cannot be measured, maybe we can try using a thread but it will be difficult to get the exact measurement.
I was just looking at the clouds and I asked myself if we will ever know where it ends even though we see them in different shapes. What about drops of rain from the sky? can we know how much we have up there before it get to the ground? I know we can collect them which we talked about in class but it’s immeasurable no matter what. In my point of view so far, infinity is a word and there are so many things we cannot account for on this planet which make me assume it exist and no matter how we think about it there might be some prove somewhere.
Good Job Jessica!
Yaa
I don't know about you guys, but I can't stop thinking about "infinity." I think about it, I dream it. It's driving me deliciously crazy. I find this concept so interesting and thought provoking, yet insanely frustrating too. I described our class discussion and about how all things in our biosphere are essenitally finite and then went on to describe the big bang theory and how that too, is finite (theoretically). My best friend told me to shut up because I was giving her a headache!! Oy! So after much, much thought I have more questions than answers and I hope Professor Hamman can quell the insanity that is brewing. :-)
ReplyDeleteDon't worry Bulandee13, you are not the only one who's going crazy about this infinity thing after that first class. I, also, drove my sister crazy regarding the meaning of infinity.
ReplyDeleteJessica, what we disscussed in class on the first day was very well summarized. I definitely agree with you that infinity is just a category for humans to place in whatever they couldn't figure out and move on to the next problem. It's like saying that it's just an excuse for us to fill in the gap to make a complete form of something, somewhere, or someone.
Christians believe that God is infinity and He's the Creator. Scientists believe in "science" and suppose there're things tossed into and came up with Big Bang. I guess if there was a big bang, all the matters extended from it are finite, they're just not knowable. Anyway, it's a theory.
ReplyDeleteI like it when you mentioned that "infinity could maybe be measured" afterwards. I sometimes agree with it too. But it contradicts with what we thought when the class first started: "infinity can't be measured." Ughhh, it leads me to go around and round and round. No answer yet.
-Mai
Jessica,
ReplyDeleteYou said that something can be considered infinite as long as its amount is not knowable. I do not agree with with that. I think that as long as you don't know how much of something there is, there is still the possibility that it is infinite, but that possibility alone does not determine its "infiniteness". At any point later on in time, it is still possible for us to fully measure something that we once thought was infinite. I don't think though, that it then changes from infinite to finite, but rather that it was finite all along, and we were unable to tell that before.
——
Julian
Hey guys! thanks for all the feedback. Sorry it's taken me a little time to reply. All this infinite talk has my head spinning trying to form a solid conclusion on what i want to take out of our discussion and run with. lol. I thought summing up the first discussions would be relatively easy because i thought we had made solid points. Turns out we all had a lot to say on the subject and it wasn't as easy as I thought. Julian- how do we measure the infinite if the numerical value of it only increases without ever ending? When i think of finite i think of a beginning and an end. Regardless of whether or not I or anyone can count it, there is a certainty that the number of ____ is within limits. Am i totally wrong for thinking this?
ReplyDeleteJessica you are not totally wrong, and I don't think there is a right or wrong. I'd say I'd lean more toward believing that if we can't count it now it's probably unlikely we will be able to later. I think that even if we could say something was finite, the number would change constantly, thus making it infinitely changing, but I am more thinking in terms of astronomy and physics, and even the earth's population.
ReplyDeleteI am only semi-worthy to speak of infinity in mathematical terms. I am hoping that through a mathematical approach I can come to a conclusion about infinity in philosophical terms as well. Engineering problems are solved with applied mathematics---mathematics is at the root of everything. And you can't argue with math. This is why I love it. Logically thinking, you would assume I love infinity (being a mathematical term). It's a love/hate relationship. I would like to respectfully disagree that infinity belongs in a category, even if that category is labeled "unknown". I think that infinity deserves it's own category. Using the analogy that the entire breadth of mathematics would span the entire universe, then us humans don't know more than the size of a pea. No---we don't know more than a molecule on the pea. And thats being generous. Mathematics is a beautiful thing, and I also respectfully disagree that it is just a thing that "follows laws". It is so much more than that. I think if we come up with a mathematical definition, we can parlay that into a philosophical translation and have that be true as well. (although I have no idea how) I believe that infinity is independent of time. I think that infinity is hard if not impossible to be properly represented through concrete examples (i.e. grass, water, etc.) because infinity is not a concrete idea in and of itself. dictionary.com defines finite as:
ReplyDeletefi·nite [fahy-nahyt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having bounds or limits; not infinite; measurable.
2.
Mathematics .
a.
(of a set of elements) capable of being completely counted.
b.
not infinite or infinitesimal.
c.
not zero.
3.
subject to limitations or conditions, as of space, time, circumstances, or the laws of nature: man's finite existence on earth.
the latin root for "in" is translated to "not" in the english language.